45 Comments

  • ΑΝΗΚΟΜΕΝ ΣΤΗ ΔΥΣΗ!!!

    Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν: «Η Ελλάδα είναι μια χώρα της Ανατολής και κακώς τη δεχθήκαμε στην Ευρώπη»

    Δεν πρόκειται για μια δήλωση κάποιου «ιέρακα» της ευρωπαϊκής πολιτικής σκηνής που επιλέγει να χρησιμοποιήσει την κρίση για μικροπολιτικούς λόγους, αλλά για την πεποίθηση ενός από τους «φίλους» της Ελλάδας, ο οποίος χαρακτηρίζει λάθος την αποδοχή μιας χώρας σαν την Ελλάδα στην Ευρώπη..

    Ο λόγος για τον πρώην πρόεδρο της Γαλλίας Βαλερί Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν ο οποίος σε κοινή συνέντευξη με τον πρώην Καγκελάριο Χέλμουτ Σμιτ στο περιοδικό “Der Spiegel” χαρακτηρίζει ουσιαστικά λάθος εκτίμησή του την αποδοχή της χώρας μας στον σκληρό πυρήνα της Ευρώπης.

    «Θυμάμαι Χέλμουτ πως είχες επιφυλάξεις για την αποδοχή της Ελλάδας στην Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα το 1981. Ήσουν προφανώς σοφότερος από εμένα» αναφέρει στο γερμανικό περιοδικό ο πάλαι ποτέ ένθερμος υποστηρικτής της συμμετοχής της Ελλάδας στους ευρωπαϊκούς μηχανισμούς.

    Οι δύο πρώην Ευρωπαίοι ηγέτες δηλώνουν βέβαιοι για τη διατήρηση της ευρωζώνης αλλά ζητούν συγκεκριμένες αλλαγές και κυρίως να μην γίνει αποδεκτή καμία χώρα στο ευρώ, πέρα από την Πολωνία. «Ήδη 17 χώρες είναι πάρα πολλές» ανέφερε ο πρώην Καγκελάριος Σμιτ ο οποίος ζήτησε από κοινού με τον Βαλερί Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν να μετατραπεί η ευρωζώνη σε μια «Ευρώπη πρώτης ταχύτητας» εκ των οποίων οι 17 χώρες να μετεξελιχθούν σε Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες της Ευρώπης. Η Ελλάδα δεν μπορεί να εκδιωχθεί από το ευρώ. Αν δεν θέλει η χώρα και δεν μπορεί να αντεπεξέλθει στις υποχρεώσεις της θα αποχωρήσει μόνη της. ¨Όταν είσαι μέλος κάποιας ομάδας πρέπει να μάθεις να παίζεις με τους κανόνες»

    http://www.protothema.gr/

    • @ Crossover!

      Read this carefully and then tell me who are Greece’s real allies!!!

      Is it the NATO or the EU or is it the Russian Bear???

      Ρωσική κίνηση “ματ” στο Αιγαίο υπέρ Ελλάδος – Απέρριψε τις τουρκικές NOTAM για τα νησιά

      Με μία απλή αλλά πολύ έξυπνη κίνηση η Ρωσία έστειλε σαφές προειδοποιητικό μήνυμα στην Τουρκία σε ότι αφορά τις συνεχείς ΝΟΤΑΜ και NAVTEX που εκδίδει η Άγκυρα περί δήθεν παραβιάσεων των Συνθηκών του 1914 και του 1923, από την Ελλάδα με την στρατικοποίηση των νησιών του Α.Αιγαίου. Η Ρωσία εμμέσως πλην σαφώς, αναγνώρισε το δικαίωμα της Ελλάδας να διατηρεί δυνάμεις αυτοάμυνας στα νησιά και ότι οι δυνάμεις αυτές δεν αποτελούν παραβίαση των συνθηκών.

      Συγκεκριμένα, αμέσως μετά την έκδοση των τουρκικών ΝΟΤΑΜ και NAVTEX που αμφισβητούσαν το ελληνικό δικαίωμα αυτοάμυνας, η Mόσχα έστειλε ομάδα αξιωματικών των ρωσικών ενόπλων δυνάμεων για να … επιθεωρήσουν σε εφαρμογή του Κειμένου Βιέννης 2011 από 24 έως 27 Σεπτεμβρίου 2012, τα περισσότερα νησιά στα οποία η Τουρκία αρνείται το δικαίωμα ύπαρξης δυνάμεων αυτοάμυνας, αποδεχόμενη έτσι, στην πράξη το νόμιμο της ύπαρξης ελληνικών στρατιωτικών δυνάμεων στα νησιά..

      Η επιθεώρηση (φωτό α΄σελίδας Έλληνες και Ρώσοι αξιωματικοί) αυτή καθ’αυτή μικρή σημασία έχει (αφορά το Κείμενο της Βιέννης 2011 ένα πολιτικά, δεσμευτικό έγγραφο το οποίο συνιστά ένα διευρυμένο κατάλογο Μέτρων Οικοδόμησης Εμπιστοσύνης και Ασφάλειας μεταξύ ΝΑΤΟ και Ρωσίας και επιτρέπει ανταλλαγές αντιπροσωπείων), αλλά έτσι όπως εξελίχθηκε έχει τεράστια πολιτική-διπλωματική σημασία.

      Σύμφωνα με το κείμενο της Βιέννης 2011, προβλέπονται επισκέψεις επιθεωρητών, με σκοπό την επαλήθευση των ετησίων στοιχείων τα οποία ανταλλάσσουν οι συμβαλλόμενες χώρες. Υποτίθεται ότι ελέγχονται οι στρατιωτικές δυνάμεις της Ελλάδος στις περιοχές αυτές αν πληρούν τα όσα προβλέπει το Κείμενο Βιέννης 2011 για τα όπλα που χρησιμοποιούν.

      Με την επιλογή όμως αυτών των περιοχών, η Μόσχα αναγνωρίζει το νόμιμο της ύπαρξης ελληνικών στρατιωτικών δυνάμεων που αμφισβητεί η Τουρκία και όχι μόνο: Είναι γνωστή η άρνηση του ΝΑΤΟ να χρησιμοποιήσει στις ασκήσεις του νησιά όπως η Λήμνος, για τα οποία δεν αναγνωρίζει το δικαίωμα ύπαρξης δυνάμεων αυτοάμυνας.

      Οι αξιολογήσεις της ρωσικής αντιπροσωπείας έγιναν στα νησιά τους και τους σχηματισμούς-αιχμή: Η ομάδα αξιολογητών της Ρωσικής Ομοσπονδίας επισκέφθηκε την 98 ΑΔΤΕ (Μυτιλήνη), 88 ΣΔΙ (Λήμνος), ΤΔ/41 ΣΠ (Σαμοθράκη) του ΣΞ και 130 ΣΜ (Λήμνος) της ΠΑ αντίστοιχα

      Όταν η Τουρκία ακριβώς πριν από ένα μήνα με σχετική ΝΟΤΑΜ υποστήριζε ότι η Ελλάδα παραβιάζει διεθνείς συνθήκες εμπλέκοντας σε στρατιωτικές ασκήσεις τα νησιά Ικαρία, Χίο, Λήμνο, Λέσβο, Ψαρά, Σάμο και Σαμοθράκη, τα οποία είναι αποστρατιωτικοποιημένες ζώνες βάσει της συνθήκης παραχώρησης των νησιών του Α.Αιγαίου του 1914 (“THE 1914 SIX POWERS DECISION”) και της Συνθήκης της Λοζάνης που ακολούθησε την Μικρασιατική Κατστροφή.

      Η φρασεολογία που χρησιμοποιήθηκε στις τουρκικές ΝΟΤΑΜ δίνει στην Ελλάδα τον χαρακτήρα “παράνομου κράτους” και συνακόλουθα τεκμηριώνει, κατά τους τουρκικούς ισχυρισμούς, δικαίωμα επέμβασης για επαναφορά στην πρότερη νόμιμη κατάσταση.
      Ας δούμε τις δύο τουρκικές ΝΟΤΑΜ:

      Περί “παρανόμων δραστηριοτήτων”:

      A2929/12 (Issued for LTBB LGGG) – THIS NOTAM ISSUED TO CLARIFY THE A1275/12 NOTAM ISSUED BY GREEK

      Περί ορίων FIR:

      A2928/12 (Issued for LTBB LGGG) – AS REGARDS TO THE GREEK NOTAM A1275/12 WHICH GIVES REFENCE TO THE

      Η μετάβαση της ρωσικής ομάδας στα νησιά έστειλε ακριβώς το μήνυμα ότι η Ελλάδα έχει καθε δικαίωμα να φροντίζει για την αυτοάμυνά της και δεν παραβιάζει καμία συνθήκη… Και όταν το λέει η Ρωσία που έχει κάθε συμφέρον στην έξοδο από τα Στενά να μην αντιμετωπίζει “εχθρικές” δυνάμεις, έχει μεγάλη σημασία. Γιατί εκτός των άλλων είναι και μόνιμο μέλος του Συμβουλίου Ασφαλείας του ΟΗΕ…

  • Of course you all know from previous posts that I have been a supporter of Samaras for reasons explained at some length), but I am beginning to listen more carefully.

    One thing is for certain. This whole euro “crisis” is and was 100% political. It was meant to buy off time (nonsense time really) and of course break labor in the process (we don’t need to hide from such self-evident truths). Some of course consider breaking labor a good thing so let’s not get into such details here.

    The bottom line is this. Germany again will do nothing of what is required which in short order are:

    1. direct ECB recap of Europe’s banks
    2. Required haircut by the OSI on Greek sovereign debt
    3. Any meaningful stimulation of the Greek economy.

    Therefore, much ado about nothing and here we go again. Political stagnation, I would call it, on a European scale. Because the next objective for Merkel is to get into her 2013 elections by giving away as little as possible and doing as little as possible while maintaining her German vote as much as possible. And unless she is forced to do something, she intends to do absolutely nothing.

    • Hello – Dean, you cant recap the European banks, they are black holes. Better to recap the savers.

      Required haircut by the OSI on Greek sovereign debt – You must be living in the twilight zone, Germany was the only party asking for a haircut the last time it happened. Papandreou was quite happy with the debt load.

      About Samaras, I to was a massive fan but since January I have seen him turn into Papandreou. Everyone told me that would happen but I didn’t believe them, I was wrong. It was bizarre seeing someone change their rhetoric so much.

    • On spot.

      Something must be added in your second paragraph next to buying time.

      Buying assets and resources really cheap. The next thing one needs to do very profitable business is slave markets.

      No wonder why these are the parts of the memorandum that troika really insists.

  • MK Germany cut credit? Lets be more specific, German banks cut credit not the German government,

    MK Germany controlling the ECB? – Germany is the minority, the last Bundesbank chairman resigned because of ECB action and the current one could resign over the actions of the ECB. Hardly sounds like the Bundesbank is in COMPLETE control of the ECB does it?

    MK Turning off taps, turning them back on. Yeah okay, Greece loses sovereignty to the German banks through the ECB, yeah, ok, I agree with that,

    Yani, you say Greece cannot compete with Germany, please tell me why that is and/or tell me why Greece cannot simply copy Germany policy if it is so effective at creating wealth for the citizens.

    MK Germany throwing its weight around? How? By having the ECB going against the wishes of the German people?

    Bravo Yanis on the French Euro=German Unification equation * Germany not interested in political hegemony!

    Yanis, I think you have to acknowledge that Merkel could be just as much a hostage of the banks as other countries in the Eurozone/USA.

    MK Silver Drachma – Okay cool, but that can only work if the trade deficit is sorted out otherwise all the silver will leave the country. Again, the trade deficit is the core of the problem in Greece, fix that and you fix everything, just ask Germany!

    Yanis – No reason why private companies could not back/insure the silver currency

    MK – Talks about Italy, Spain is the one following a carbon copy of Greece

  • BTW, Yani:

    This video is one of your best. You show mature judgment and excellent grasp of the issues. I haven’t been around for a while and it’s nice to see your thought evolution.

    • David – In case there was any doubt as to Soros’s agenda this paragraph sums it up
      “Since all the accumulated debt is denominated in euros it makes all the difference who remains in charge of the euro.1 If Germany left, the euro would depreciate. The debt burden would remain the same in nominal terms but diminish in real terms. The debtor countries would regain their competitiveness because their exports would become cheaper and their imports more expensive. The value of their real estate would also appreciate in nominal terms, i.e., it would be worth more in depreciated euros.”

      He has put his cards on the table. He wants massive inflation to wipe out debt. He is on the same line as The Fed, the BOE, France etc etc.

      Ask anyone that has gone through inflation (Argentina, Greece, Russia, Zimbabwe, Germany), saver or not and they will tell you it is not something you want. It is far better to default with a currency that is still worth something, ie the Euro. A country defaulting while still having a currency that is worth something after has not happened in living memory. It is the Euro’s silver bullet to the sovereign debt problem

  • Dear Yanis,

    My comments on Greece are a little more balanced. While austerity has been an unmitigated disaster, the truth is that the private sector has borne the brunt of the savage austerity measures. The real Greek tragedy was played out over decades as successive governments bought votes by expanding an already inefficient public sector. Amazingly, even now that the money has run out, they still can’t cut this public sector beast down to size. If they don’t cut the bloated public sector, it will ultimately lead to the country’s downfall. Here is my last comment on Greece and the end of the European dream:

    http://pensionpulse.blogspot.ca/2012/09/greece-and-end-of-european-dream.html

    • Leo, my thoughts exactly. The Greek government says it has made progress on the primary deficit, which it has, if you ignore interest. If you include interest, the primary deficit is roughly the same as in 2008, ie 2 billion Euros a month http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/government-budget
      http://www.datosmacro.com/en/deficit/greece

      Personally I am at a loss to explain where the money goes. To give an idea of how massive that number is, to balance the books the Greek government would have to sack 1 MILLION employees who cost the government 2000Euros a month in wages.

      The fact that the government has been utterly unable to make even the smallest hole in such a gargantuan problem shows they are simply not interested in making Greece self sufficient and/or they are utterly, utterly clueless.

      There is not hope for Greece to remain an independent country at this rate and the government and unions seems happy to continue getting bailouts as long as they maintain their power.

      I am struggling to understand why Germany is even bothering given the obvious waste of cash. The EU, Junker et al, okay, their goal is a Europe controlled by Brussels, their motives are understandable, but Merkel? The banks must have more power in Germany than people realise.

    • Richard you certainly have no idea on what you are talking about.

      “The Greek government says it has made progress on the primary deficit, which it has, if you ignore interest. If you include interest, the primary deficit is roughly the same as in 2008, ie 2 billion Euros.”

      The primary balance is precisely the total balance minus interest payments.If you include interest in your calculations then you are not talking about PRIMARY surplus or deficit.

    • You are correct on my understanding of primary deficit. Thank you for correcting me. About your comment I have “no idea what I am talking about”, you say this because I misunderstood Primary Deficit or was there something else?

    • Further more,there isnt anything Greece can do to reduce interest payments.If there will be no further haircuts that is.So your whole argument doesnt stand anywhere.
      Greece has done/is doing its part in the nonsensical goal of reducing the deficit.

    • Hello Cross, “Further more,there isnt anything Greece can do to reduce interest payments.” (Im not sure what argument you are talking about) – Default is always an option as Yanis has also said and personally I believe it is inevitable. The Greek government will default at some point, the question is when. That’s my prediction. Assuming they don’t, theoretically it is possible to reduce the interest payments, the government can start paying off the debt, I know very unlikely given the current situation. Interest rates have only one way to go. But I do not think anyone is even comprehending a time when the interest load will start to decrease. All forecasts are it increasing rapidly as a percentage of GDP and even the figures bandied about by the OECD are hopelessly optimistic in my opinion. In short, a default is the only logical solution. The debt was unmanageable in 2008 let alone now where the debt has increased and the GDP has decreased and both are continuing to head on their current course for the foreseeable future. And I am talking about the Greek government defaulting here, that is the only party with and causing the problems in Greece.

  • Dean αν ειναι μια φορα καθαρματα αυτοι που θελουν τα μνημονια ( ακα Germany ) ειναι 10 φορεσ χειροτεροι αυτοι που τα εφαρμοζουν.

    Με εκπλήσει το petition ωστε να αντιστραφει η μνημονιακη πολιτικη απο τους Γερμανους.Θα ηταν καλυτερο ενα petition να φυγει ο Σαμαρας απο πρωθηπουργος η ακομα καλυτερα να μην τον ψηφιζες οταν και η κουτση μαρια ηξερε οτι θα κανει κωλοτουμπες.

    Κωλοτουμπες στα και καλα , 18 σημεια που ξεχαστηκαν απο την πρωτη ωρα.

    Κωλοτουμπα για ττις εξεταστικες , για τα σκανδαλα , για τη συγκαλυψη του καθε Σαλα και την πειραιως ,για τις υποσχεσεις οτι δε θα υπαρξουν αλλες οριζοντιες μειωσεις .
    Γιατι επανεεφερε διαφορα πολιτικα κατακαθια στυλ nτορας , πλευρη , γεωργιαδη και λοιπους γιατι ολα οσα ειπε τα εκανε γαργαρα και το ειχε κανει και στο παρελθον

    Ενα μνημονιο που και καλα δεν υποσηριζε και διακυβευε οτι ειναι το λαθος φαρμακο που σκοτωνει τον ασθενη και μετα το ψηφισε και μας εριξε αλλες 40 θεσεις στην ανταγωνιστικοτητα απο τοτε , – 30% στο αεπ , και μας φεσωσε με αλλα 30 δις ελλειμα και γενικα ξεπουλαει τη χωρα.

    Δεν εχεις δικαιωμα να παραπονιεσαι για την κανταντια και να ξερεις εχεις βαλει και συ το χερι σου σε αυτο με τον να τον ψηφιζεις … αυτα γιατι η ειρωνια εχει και ορια ( οπως και τα νευρα μας)

    • St3roids:

      O.k. I understand your anger. But to put the record straight I did not vote for anyone. Since I live overseas I did not have the option of voting.

      As to the petition, I think it’s appropriate because the financial aid and the austerity measures are totally separate and unrelated matters. The aid was given to strengthen the eurobanking system. Therefore it was to be given regardless.

      The austerity measures are arbitrary and were placed because Germany thought that it could accomplish a dual goal of preservation(euro system) and political dominance (over Greece). Therefore the petition is aimed at the 2nd part (the fake part as I call it). Because not only the political dominance has not occurred (not will it ever), but this fake objective has ruined the lives of innocent people and as such it has to go.

  • We live at times that those who have money have too much power and no incentives to spend money. Those who do not have money loose more and more power and as a result get even less money. Thus the circulation of money is damaged and the economies suffer. What do you think that the final outcome of this situation will be ?

  • How finance led to debt servitude (or f**k the EU Monster)

    by Dimitris Yannopoulos

    According to Michael Hudson, stock markets have been a vehicle for banks to create credit for junk bond buyers

    AS AN ACADEMIC with a strong grounding in economic history as well as banking and finance, professor Michael Hudson has built his own school of thought – distanced from both Keynesians and neoliberals – with regard to the stark options facing a contemporary Western world drowned in unsustainable debts of governments, with households at the mercy of global bankers and financiers who have no accountability.

    Options for the indebted amount to no less than a choice between feudal-like servitude and freedom, because “debts that can’t be paid, won’t be”, Hudson argues in an interview with the Athens News, on the occasion of the publication this year of his book, The Bubble and Beyond: Fictitious Capital, Debt Deflation and Global Crisis.

    Distinguished research professor of economics at the University of Missouri, Hudson is also president of the Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends (ISLET), a former Wall Street financial analyst and a research associate at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, New York.

    Athens News: How has the financial system evolved into a form of economic servitude which – in your latest book – you call ‘debt peonage’, implying a negation of democracy as well as of free-market capitalism itself?

    Michael Hudson: The original hope of banking and finance capitalism in the 19th century was that banks would make productive loans to help finance industry and that they would advance funds to manufacturers and producers as well as to the public sector for infrastructure; this would create an economic surplus out of which to pay the interest and the principal back to the lenders. This was defined as productive lending. But as matters have turned out, instead of aligning itself with industry and manufacturing, banking has allied itself with real estate, mineral extraction, oil, gas and with all sorts of monopolies. So instead of getting a share of the profits, it has taken a share of the rent, which is unearned income.

    In fact, in the US, banks don’t make loans for what can be produced in the future. They make loans against collateral. That’s the Anglo-American-Dutch banking system. A banker can look at what can be pledged as collateral on which the bank could foreclose, instead of extending loans for the creation of new factories to employ people, new means of production. This was supposed to be done by the stock market.

    When did this process get out of hand?

    Since 1980, more than 30 years now, the stock market has been a vehicle for banks to create credit for junk-bond buyers – corporate raiders who would take over companies, load them down with debt and just extract interest by downsizing the labour force, shifting it to non-union labour, breaking up companies, and sell off the parts so that finance becomes destructive instead of productive. And as this sort of banking has gained wealth, it has used this wealth to privatise the government itself. It has bought control of governments to make interest tax-exempt, to favour debt financing instead of equity financing and to deregulate the banking industry so that in America financial fraud by the largest banks has been virtually decriminalised.

    Is the so-called financialisation of the economy a product of bank deregulation?

    Financialisation is a very good term because it shows that finance is taking over the whole economy. It began by taking over the real estate and insurance sectors, prompting national income economists to lump together what they call the FIRE sectors – finance, insurance and real estate – but it also should include the legal sector, because most of the law these days is corporate law that aids financial fraud. Finance has thus expanded to absorb the entire economic surplus of the economy so that this surplus is not being used either for capital investment to increase output or for increased consumption, because it is being diverted to increase debt service to the banks. Financialisation means the surplus is used for financial speculation purposes and not spent on the real economy, which is driven to a spiral of debt deflation and unemployment.

    But this system collapsed in 2008, right?

    This is not so. In fact, the collapse of 2008 was the greatest victory of finance capital in centuries. It used a crisis as an opportunity to panic the US Congress into taking all of the losses of the big gambling banks into the public balance sheet, incurring 13 trillion dollars of added debt. Therefore the crisis became an opportunity to turn democracy into a financial oligarchy. The same thing happened in Ireland, when Irish banks were stranded with enormous fraudulent loans or in Greece, when massive public debts were diverted to tax fraud and state corruption backed by EU multinationals. In both cases, the government pledged to pay the fraudsters by shifting the burden to small taxpayers, homeowners, employees and pensioners.

    Isn’t the case of Greece peculiar, in the sense that it allowed global creditors to shift their debt burden onto eurozone governments?

    Under eurozone rules, Greece cannot have a central bank monetise its public debt and must pay the debts that it has taken on by raising taxes, cutting wages, axing social welfare and privatising the public domain. So the financial sector is using the Greek debt crisis as an opportunity to seize whatever the Greek government and nation owns, its real estate and public buildings, its mineral wealth and its oil rights in the Aegean, all for the benefit of the eurozone banking sector.

    What are the options available to the world for resolving the debt crisis and avoiding a global depression?

    A shrinking economy can only fall further into arrears in a debt deflation spiral. The question today is whether a new wave of reform will restore and indeed complete the task of classical political economy to distinguish tangible wealth creation from debt overhead and other capital gains. Otherwise, the democratic era of industrial capitalism will be rolled back towards a neofeudal reaction of the financial oligarchy against social reform.

    What is at stake is how society will liberate itself from the legacy of debts that can’t be paid. If it lets the financial sector foreclose, governments will be forced to privatise the public domain under blackmail, dismantling public administration and welfare services, ushering in a dark age of poverty/immiseration – most characteristically, one of debt peonage.

    The only alternative to this nightmare is for debts to be written down to what can be paid back in a democratic mixed economy, geared to a more equitable distribution of wealth and income.

    Returning to the 19th century

    Athens News: Why so much emphasis on austerity and internal devaluation?

    Michael Hudson: This is because financialisation brings the class war back, in a new way. For the last 100 years the social divide was between employers and employees fighting for workplace rights, higher wages and so on, but once you bring in the financial sector, this adds a new dimension to their struggle. Once creditors take control of governments and unions, they push austerity and unemployment that drives down wages on a macroeconomic “financial” level to a degree that could not occur before. In the US, workers are in debt and afraid to go on strike, afraid even to complain about working conditions, because if they are fired and miss a payment in their electricity or mortgage bills, they are one paycheque away from homelessness. So what’s happening in Greece is happening in America too. We have government-sponsored wage cuts and abolition of labour rights in ways 19th-century industrialists never dreamed of.

  • I do not understand analysis but what I do understand is that there is no organisation and no meritocracy in Greece and I fear no patriotism :/

    • It’s time for Greece 2.0 The EU shall go to where it belongs and we need to do our own thing. We have much more in common with Russia than with these lousy European pseudo-partners. Let them flock with their own peoples and leave us alone. We don’t need such “friends”

    • Brother, there are simply too many people who think they are dependent on the Greek state and the numbers are increasing all the time.

    • @Crossover:

      “personally dont feel i have anything in common with a Russian.”

      If you feel that way, than you rightly deserve the kind of treatment from your German and other EU “friends” 🙂

      Please do me a favour and never again complain against your Eurozone aka Deutschmark-zone alleged “friends” !!!

      You are unable to see your real affiliations and have forgotten your own history!

    • Dear Aristoteles
      I know you love that romantic idea that if you left the EU and threw yourself into the arms of Russia, suddenly everything would be just fine, as if by magic.

      My opinion: if Greece is willing and able to reform itself into a functioning state according to EU standards, then everything is going to be fine anyway. Surely, you have support from the EU (ECB loans, another debt restructuring’s probably already being negotiated behind closed doors plus the EU could help with expertise on how to run a country more efficientyl plus Greece is a major net receiver of EU funds – always has been since joining). Not clever to give all that up and therefore no need to leave the EU.

      If Greece does not have the will to reform itself into a respectable member of the EU, then leaving and asking Russia for help will probably be a big disappointment. I’d be very surprised if Russia would throw hundreds of billions of Euros your way (which is the order of magnitude you are going to need over the next decade or so if you want to continue to live like a 1st world country but without reform). The Russians already have enough on their plate – the last thing they need is a permanent drain on resources like an unwilling-to-reform Greece would be.

    • Martin, I think you need to specify “Greek government” when you talk about reforms & respectable citizen. It is not the Greek people that have the inefficiency issues.

    • Dear Richard
      Sure, with “Greece” I meant the government / the system / administration (or the lack of a functioning adminstration).
      I did not say or mean that the individual citizens were not respectable / need to reform. I am sure the vast majority of citizens in Greece is very decent and I have nothing against them at all and feel sorry for them.
      I mean the system (which ultimately consists of people and structure).
      I would imagine that once the structures get set right, then the 15% or so of the population that currently are following badly designed incentives will change their ways, too and the whole system may ultimately be sustainable.

    • Martin, that would be nice be we are all dumb. If the government says they are going to give something to us for free we are all over it like white on rice. As a species I think it takes real effort for us to question the word “free” in general. This is the biggest flaw of mankind and the flaw that governments exploit constantly. Like I said it takes immense effort to see through the “free” rhetoric that we are bombarded with constantly. Free wars, free education, free healthcare, free grants, free money, free bailouts, free unemployment benefit, free pensions, free sanctions, free public inquiries, free public transport, free currency devaluation, free independent inquiries, free privatisations, free regulations, free security, free regulatory enforcement, free tax increases etc etc. Its easier to just accept it, just let the rip tide take you into the sea of the majority. The word free is so comforting, who doesn’t want something for free?

      Why are politicians not held accountable with false advertising laws? Maybe this is all we need?

    • @Aristoteles

      If you think Putin cares about you because you are a Christian Orthodox then keep dreaming.Thats not how diplomacy is conducted nowadays.Money talks period.
      And btw the reason why i dont have anything in common with a Russian is exactly because i remember history.Greece is the mother of Western Civilisation and Russia is not a part of it.I dont have anything in common except religion.But i certainly dont pick my friends based on religion ie. i could get along equally well with a Buddhist and a Christian.

      You seriously need to get your mind right if you think that im happy for what the EU is doing.The thing is, the EU would do the same if you were a catholic unless you think the Spaniards and the Italians have more in common with Russia than with the other european nations.

      Do yourself a favor and stop watching Liakopoulos.

    • The West is the civilization of the Germanic and Celtic people, the West is in Charlemagnes tradition and heritage. Greece is neither a Germanic civilization nor in Charlemagnes ( ie. Frankish) tradition. The West is the contemporary heir of the Frankish civilization. Greece is the heir of the ancient hellenic and roman civilizations and that of their common offspring nameley the Eastern Roman Empire. Our owm original civilization is Romanity and not that of the West. Can you see the difference? It’s a pitty that you like all other Greeks have never been taught these difference in Greek school! In order to understand the difference between our culture and civilization and that of the West one just needs to contrast and compare the Orthodox faith with the Western denominations. The Western Christian denominations are completely different from our own Christian traditions and beliefs and led to the great schisma and the sacking of Constantinople by the Westerners (Germans, Dutch, French, etc.). The same apples to the Western “flavour” of democracy. The ancient Greeks would be utterly disgusted by the “perverted” nature of the Western democracy. Modern democracy is a very different animal from classical Athenean or Roman democracies. As I said before the West is the West and Greece is not the same as the West! And here is a proof that what I say is 100 percent true: ΑΝΗΚΟΜΕΝ ΣΤΗ ΔΥΣΗ???? Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν: «Η Ελλάδα είναι μια χώρα της Ανατολής και κακώς τη δεχθήκαμε στην Ευρώπη» Δεν πρόκειται για μια δήλωση κάποιου «ιέρακα» της ευρωπαϊκής πολιτικής σκηνής που επιλέγει να χρησιμοποιήσει την κρίση για μικροπολιτικούς λόγους, αλλά για την πεποίθηση ενός από τους «φίλους» της Ελλάδας, ο οποίος χαρακτηρίζει λάθος την αποδοχή μιας χώρας σαν την Ελλάδα στην Ευρώπη.. Ο λόγος για τον πρώην πρόεδρο της Γαλλίας Βαλερί Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν ο οποίος σε κοινή συνέντευξη με τον πρώην Καγκελάριο Χέλμουτ Σμιτ στο περιοδικό “Der Spiegel” χαρακτηρίζει ουσιαστικά λάθος εκτίμησή του την αποδοχή της χώρας μας στον σκληρό πυρήνα της Ευρώπης. «Θυμάμαι Χέλμουτ πως είχες επιφυλάξεις για την αποδοχή της Ελλάδας στην Ευρωπαϊκή Κοινότητα το 1981. Ήσουν προφανώς σοφότερος από εμένα» αναφέρει στο γερμανικό περιοδικό ο πάλαι ποτέ ένθερμος υποστηρικτής της συμμετοχής της Ελλάδας στους ευρωπαϊκούς μηχανισμούς. Οι δύο πρώην Ευρωπαίοι ηγέτες δηλώνουν βέβαιοι για τη διατήρηση της ευρωζώνης αλλά ζητούν συγκεκριμένες αλλαγές και κυρίως να μην γίνει αποδεκτή καμία χώρα στο ευρώ, πέρα από την Πολωνία. «Ήδη 17 χώρες είναι πάρα πολλές» ανέφερε ο πρώην Καγκελάριος Σμιτ ο οποίος ζήτησε από κοινού με τον Βαλερί Ζισκάρ Ντ’ Εστέν να μετατραπεί η ευρωζώνη σε μια «Ευρώπη πρώτης ταχύτητας» εκ των οποίων οι 17 χώρες να μετεξελιχθούν σε Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες της Ευρώπης. Η Ελλάδα δεν μπορεί να εκδιωχθεί από το ευρώ. Αν δεν θέλει η χώρα και δεν μπορεί να αντεπεξέλθει στις υποχρεώσεις της θα αποχωρήσει μόνη της. ¨Όταν είσαι μέλος κάποιας ομάδας πρέπει να μάθεις να παίζεις με τους κανόνες» http://www.protothema.gr/

    • Lets agree to disagree, but for the shake of the argument lets just say that you just proved that we dont have anything in common with Western Europe (Though Why would the opinion of a single person such as the ex-Pres. of France,becomes a fact is beyond me but anyway).Does this automatically mean we have anything in common with the Russians except religion?

      If you think EU is bullying you,what makes you think Putin wont do the same?Because you are a Christian Orthodox? Be serious.

      “The Western Christian denominations are completely different from our own Christian traditions and beliefs”
      Our own Christian traditions are even more different than ancient Greek traditions and beliefs.

      Anyway,the only reason i started this argument is because you spoke as if you were a representative of each one of us.You can speak for yourself as i do.Not only that, you even want to base official foreign relations on religion.We dont live at the times of the Byzantine Empire.I dont have a problem with Russians as i dont have a problem with any citizen from any nation.I personally feel i have more in common with a Portugese than a Russian and thats it.But this doesnt have anything to do with politics.

    • “Είναι αδύνατον να αρχίσει δημιουργία Ελληνικής ζωής ενόσω όλα τα πράγματα της ζωής από το πρώτον κουρέλι του λίκνου – και όλων των ιδεών – μέχρι του τελευταίου κουρελιού του τάφου, είναι ξένα. Το κτύπημα της ξενομανίας είναι το πρώτον κίνημα, ο πρώτος αγών των ποθούντων να αγωνισθούν διά μίαν αρχήν Ελλάδος.

      Η ξενομανία είναι χωριατιά. Είναι προστυχιά. Είναι κουταμάρα. Είναι αφιλοτιμία. Είναι αφιλοπατρία. Και είναι ξιππασιά. Και είναι αμάθεια.
      Αυτός ο ανώτερος, ο πλούσιος, ο ανεπτυγμένος, ο ταξιδευμένος, ο παντογνώστης, ο παντοκρίτης, ο ιατρός, ο δικηγόρος, ο πολιτικός, ο παππάς, ο δάσκαλος, ο καθηγητής, ο τραπεζίτης, ο έμπορος, ο άνθρωπος του πνεύματος, που επήγε εις την Ευρώπην και εγύρισε ξενομανής, είναι αμαθής. Επήγε κι εγύρισε κούτσουρον. Δι’ αυτό είναι ξενομανής.

      Επήγε και εγύρισε χωριάτης δι’ αυτό είναι ξενομανής. Ό,τι είδε, ό,τι έμαθε δεν του εχρησίμευσεν εις τίποτε. Δεν εδιόρθωσε το κεφάλι, το εχάλαε. Δεν εφωτίσθη, αλλά ετυφλώθη δια πάντα. Δι’ αυτό είναι ξενομανής…

      «Η ΞΕΝΟΜΑΝΙΑ»

      Όταν η ξετσίπωτη Γύφτισα – η τωρινή Ρωμηοσύνη – πετάξει τα παληοχρώματά της και φορέσει τα χρώματα της γης της, τότε θα υπάρξει χροϊκώς Ελλάς…

      «ΤΟ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ΧΡΩΜΑ»

      Μη σας ξαφνίζει η χαμηλότης της γλώσσης. Κανένα γλωσσικόν κατέβασμα, δεν θα κατόρθωνε να ζωγραφίσει, την ποταπότητα των Ελλαδικών πραγμάτων…

      Η ιστορία του αιώνος αυτού εγράφη υπό την χατζάραν των Κλεπτών και υπό το τακούνι των Βουλευτών. Και με ψεύδη δεν δημιουργούνται έθνη…

      Πεθαίνετε διότι εσκοτώσατε το ΠΝΕΥΜΑ. Ενόσω δεν αναστηθή και αναστηλωθή το ΠΝΕΥΜΑ αδύνατον να αρχίση η υπάρχουσα Ζωντανή Ελλάς…

      Εσκοτώσατε την ελληνικήν νεότητα. Και έθνος χωρίς νεολαίαν είναι άνοιξις χωρίς άνθη…
      Κάτω η Ελλάς των ψήφων, των μισθών, των χαρτοπαικτών και των βουλευτών…
      «ΤΟ ΝΕΟΝ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ»

      Αν σκιάζεστε να σκεφθείτε ελεύθερα, αν φοβάστε να σταθείτε όρθιοι σαν άντρες, τότε ξαναβουτίσετε στο δασκαλοσυνταγματικό σας ροχαλητό…

      Ντροπή σας να συζητάτε με τον σκυλόφραγκο αν η μακεδονική σας γη είναι δική σας γη. Και να τον πείσεις, δεν τον πείθεις τον ληστή. Ή μόνος ή με σμπίρους βαλτούς θα προσπαθήσει να σας πάρει κάθε γη. Οι πολιτισμοί που σας έμαθαν οι δασκαλοτσούσιδες, να προσκυνάτε μπρούμυτα, σας καμπανίζουν κατάμουτρα με άγρια χαστούκια. Η ΜΟΝΗ ΔΙΚΑΙΟΣΥΝΗ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΣΠΑΘΙ.

      Και είναι ανήθικον και άσκοπον και το να σας δώσουν και το να δεχθείτε τι. Και να σας δώσουν, αν είστε σάπιοι, ο πρώτος δυνατός θα σας το πάρει. Το ηθικόν είναι αν είσθε σάπιοι, να σας ξεπατώσουν και να καθαρίσουν τη γη.

      Φυλάτε τη γη σας και την τιμή της, μόνο με σπαθί. Πάψετε σαπιοδάσκαλοι και σαπιορήτορες – αναφορατζήδες – να εξευτελίζετε τη Φυλή. Πάψετε παλιόγριες τις κλάψες, τα σάλια, τα μελάνια και πιάστε το σπαθί. Τα πάντα στη ζωή – η φύσις το λέει – κατακτώνται με το σπαθί. Και έτσι είναι και μόνο έτσι πρέπει να είναι…”

    • “The ancient Greeks would be utterly disgusted by the “perverted” nature of the Western democracy.”

      Actually they wouldnt,if they could read between the lines.Slaves and women couldnt vote in Athens.Well women can vote now but we (the ordinary people) are kind of slaves if you think about it.Our vote doesnt matter.Only the decisions of the elites is what runs the game.So its not really different if you think about it.

    • Aδυνατω να καταλαβω γιατι το να αισθανεσαι πιο κοντα στον Δυτικοευρωπαιο ειναι ξενομανια ενω το να θες να τρεξεις πισω απο τον Ρωσο ειναι δειγμα ελληνοφροσυνης.Το μονο που εκανα ηταν να πω το τι εγω αισθανομαι γιατι ξανατονιζω οτι μιλησες σαν εκπροσωπος ολων των Ελληνων.
      Την δικη μου αποψη ειπα και τιποτε αλλο.Δεν επιλεγω το με ποιον αισθανομαι πιο κοντα.Και πανω απ ολα δεν εχω απαιτηση η εξωτερικη πολιτικη να στηριζεται σε συμπαθειες που ουτως η αλλως εδραζονται μονο στην κοινη θρησκεια και σε τιποτα αλλο (οσον αφορα την Ρωσια).Κι εγω πολυ θα ηθελα οι συμμαχιες και οι διπλωματικες σχεσεις να ειναι παρομοιες με τις διαπροσωπικες αλλα δυστιχως δεν ειναι.

  • In the interview I think it worth noting that in an extreme situation, Weidmann (Bundesbank) calls the shots. Assmussen has nothing to say. the ECB is only a paper pusher organization which tell the NCBs what to do.

    If the Buba does not buy the junk bonds of the ClubMed, there is nothing the ECB can do (other than asking other NCB to buy the junk).

    • If the Bundesbank does nothing, its balance sheet remains unchanged.

      So where Mario´s bazooka becomes a water pistol.

      How do YOU change a balance sheet of a bank that does nothing?

  • Yianni,

    – Do you believe Greece will go back to Drachma?
    – If yes, would it be after the bank recapitalization?

2 Trackbacks